Have you ever eaten to the point of being so full its uncomfortable? I am sad to say I have! Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter...all those events that seem to be oriented around food can sometimes get the best of me.
The Gospel of John has its own notion of being full. John writes that Jesus is full of grace and truth and that from the fullness of God's grace, we receive our blessings. Paul uses the concept of fullness to describe Jesus' relationship to God. Colossians 2:9 says that the fullness of Deity--of Godness--lives in Jesus. The fullness of God lives (in the present!) in the body of Jesus. But Paul continues. Those in Christ, in relationship with him, have been given fullness. This means that there is nothing we lack in Christ. This is not to say that there is no room to grow, but that there is nothing we lack to be whom God has made us to be. We are already full. When we grow in Christ--having our roots grow down in him and being built up in him--it is first because we have been given the ability to expand. Like a balloon that is full but can still expand, we receive fullness in Christ and then can also expand in him.
The problem is that before we receive Christ and begin being rooted in him, we try to fill ourselves with other things. We grasp on to things like intimidation, intelligence, being a victim, money, and even other people (friends, spouses, even our children) to fill us and our struggling identities. Now you can begin to see the problem: when we are in Christ--in whom the fullness of God lives--we receive fullness. This means there is no more "space" for things other than God to occupy and he will begin to remove them: if our identity was in our money, our spouse, our intelligence, our ability to intimidate, our victimage, our children, those identities will die. They need to die. In some cases, like intimidation, they need to stay dead. In other cases, like relationships, they will be received back only now not as sources of who we are, but as gifts from the fullness of grace who also gives us Jesus. The amazing thing is that centering ourselves on God is the best gift we can give to those in relationship to us because only then are we, ourselves, truly full and able to give unconditional love to others. Otherwise we're offering shells of who we are to the people we love the most, while expecting them to fill a void in us that only God can fill.
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Hi Aaron, I think the brothers and sisters we heard about Sunday from Darcie and Voice of the Martyrs are great witnesses to lives lived in the fullness of God. As Darcie aptly communicated, we, as Western Christians, don't live in that level of fullness.
I think part of the problem is that we don't really grasp what being "in Christ" truly is, let alone fullness. It's not just before we receive Christ that we try to fill ourselves with other things...it's more than trying to fill ourselves....we do fill ourselves and allow others to fill us before and after we "receive Christ". Partly because that's the way we're enculturated as American Christians. The prototype Christian we're exposed to is the one who does all the "right" things (attends "enough" services, meetings, groups, concerts and the one who gives "enough" money and time and the one who does "enough" daily bible reading, hours in prayer, singing in the choir, baking cookies, rocking babies in the nursery, and/or cleaning toilets.) We're consistently given messages in the language of "doing Christianity" and shown the elevation of the people who consistently do the stuff of organized church. Rarely are the examples of Christians who live in fullness and lack nothing in Christ Jesus used as the model.
Another problem might be the language we use. I don't think we clearly understand what "centering ourselves on Christ" means. It sounds right. But in our Christianized subculture, it doesn't translate clearly. It's so easy to mistakenly apply all the messages we hear or read from the "experts" as the way to get ourselves more "centered." Focusing on Jesus is a good thing...he was centered. I think also it would benefit us to look sincerely upon the lives of the Persecuted Church. They are centered. They understand it has nothing to do with what we do, what we know, or who we can quote - it is who we actually already are in Christ, forgiven, loved and full and then resting in that truth. "BE STILL and know that I am God." Maybe then we can begin to appreciate just how full we really are....and pass on second-best helpings.
I have a little different picture of an ever expanding container - different than your balloon illustration. I can invision it like those poor extremely, morbidly obese people (like the 1/2 Ton Man) who, although they can't even get out of their beds any longer, still have people who supposedly care about them, bring in loaves of bread, a couple of packages of hot dogs, whole pans of lasagna, bags of chips, and boxes of donuts - just for one day's food supply. On the surface it appears to be eating, a natural thing to do - but in fact it's way unhealthy and against the natural order of life. I think in America we keep looking to be fed more and more and the "experts" keep feeding and feeding us. Interestingly, the human design seems to allow unrestricted bodily expansion. Is it possible to have a "1/2 ton" spiritual life that is so full of the wrong things we keep cramming into ourselves that we can't get out of our beds - or our pews?
So after saying all that, I basically agree with you...other than I believe together we need to explore what centering on God is and how it is lived out....oh,and get some better feeding and eating habits.
Experiencing the fullness of the love of Jesus allows us to let people be where they are and need to be in relationship with Him, without criticism; to be still and let other's grow in their own pace... knowing God has it all under His control. We do not have to push, or even feed others of our latest book knowledge; when people are hungry for more they will seek their own answers in His word.
Hi Beth,
Lots of stuff there! I am not sure I am understanding you right when you speak of "resting" and pointing to the persecuted church. Oftentimes the stories I hear of Christians in persecuted settings is their constant devotion to serving, doing, living...out of abundance. This is obviously different from doing all these things from our own lack (of security, identity, love, acceptance).
The beauty of the Christian faith is that it incorporates people into different aspects of faithful living that is restricted neither to "resting" or to "doing." The fact is, just as we need to rest, eat, work, and play physically, so do we need to rest, eat, work, and play spiritually. I think of Hebrews which encourages us to live in "Sabbath rest" (Hebrews 4). (Ironically, it's an exhortation to "make every effort" to enter it.)
But I also think of Paul who uses metaphors of running and training to describe the Christian life. The wisdom of the early church was to incorporate different teachings that described the faith they were living out in different ways at different points in their lives and even various points of the week.
Aaron,
RE: Rest - Dictionary.com has 39 definitions of rest! This is the one I think is most closely the context I was using: "#5 mental or spiritual calm, tranquility"...particulary spiritual calm. I was not implying the ceasing of activity such as "serving or living out of abundance".
Again, I agree with your response but I know there are misconceptions about what it all means to many - at least many of my Christian friends and coworkers.
Ah...thanks for that definition. Once when I preached on justification in college, I had a student talk to me the next day. She asked a question that I hadn't anticipated: "How do you receive this grace?" I didn't really know how to answer because it is simply there. There is nothing to do prior to grace. There is nothing different to be prior to grace. It's God's grace that starts the whole ball rolling.
Rick C here ~ I'm thankful for your guys blog. This is my first time here and it's interesting that it may be too late for any responders...as even if it is, it's part of my thoughts. On the fullness of God...we and me may be surpised at who..."hears" and "recieves". The longer my condition rules me out of fellowship, the more I'm excerzised in faith. Alone, I'm not. He is here with me. Do I get discouraged, lonely, angry and frustrated? Absolutly. But, Papa sees right through that and I enJoy more and more His visits at His timing.
I just Googled, the Bible, and the Bible, the word, "hear". It took me through Matt. Just some vs. like 10:27 ...whispered in your ear, proclaim on the houstops.
Matt 13:9 ...they don't hear, neither do the listen.
Matt 13:13 ...he who hears and understands it...bears fruit
...the reasoon I Googled "hear" was for vs. 11:15 He who has an ear let them "hear". By example, those who "hear" God can be, in church, nursing home, in jail, well, anywhere. Then the Beatitutes in Matt. 5:3-14 it starts out...blessed is the poor in spirit for those ...the kingdom of heaven.
Just now, I left the computer. The Olympics were on TV and swimming was on. The volume was low and Linda on the phone with her sister talking about her husband's cancer. He'll be going through radiation and Chemo... if it doesn't respond he was given 6 months to a year.
All of a sudden, the race, swimmers, including Phelps, just didn't seem to matter any more.
Linda had an ear and was listening to something way more personnal. We were out of the race. Kay's and her husband's needs took over our thoughts. Father...we're listening.
My heart, over and over, is fixed on Hugh's needs...alone in that hospital. He often has said, God is large and in charge or I'm too blessed to be stressed. He said it and God can deliver being in charge and the peace needed at a time like that.
I'm loosing steam.
The last vs.s are, Matt 15:10 ...he summoned the multitude and said to them, "Hear and understand" and Matt 17:05 ...this is My son...listen to him.
So, He does speak to multitudes, aparantly yet He also sent them out by twos...Matt 10:14
One more...Matt 5 blessed are the persecuted, for my names sake...is the kingdom of heaven.
Where in the race are we? And when do we leave the multitude to find ...the lost,deseased,persecuted and oppressed? Just a question. Rick C.
Skeet or Lee (Lee, I assume), I was pondering some things today that made me think back to your comment earlier in this discussion, particularly your comment "We do not have to push, or even feed others of our latest book knowledge; when people are hungry for more they will seek their own answers in His word." While I agree that we don't have to push people - and that wasn't what I was suggesting - it does seem that some have exchanged relationship with their Bible, the inspired word of God, for relationship with The Word...The Word who is a living person, Jesus, as per John 1. And so that was sort of my point - we build so much of our religion on relationship to the word of God, neglecting relationship with The Word who is God, which I find to be two different relationships. Building the latter relationship is often missing in all the instruction we receive as believers in this culture.
Hi Beth,
You have hit on a very intricate discussion that has taken place in the second half of last century. One notion was the the word of God becomes the Word of God in its revelation of Jesus. John 1's use of the Word for Jesus is grounded in both Old Testament and philosophical thought of John's day.
In the Old Testament, God's "word" is one of the ways God's intimate presence and action in creation is described (the other being law, shekinah (presence/glory), spirit, and wisdom). John has taken this one notion and applied it to the person of Jesus.
In Greek philosophy, the word was a concept that lay at the heart of rationality. [The Greek word for logical (logikos) and word (logos) obviously bear a resemblance.] Both of these concepts are in place for John to apply to Jesus.
Just thought I'd add that to the mix!
Hi Lee ~ I've been thinking a lot about what you've shared, and I strongly agree God's love flowing through us shouldn't come across as "criticism". I know along my own journey I get so excited about what I'm experiencing, that in sharing with others I often express myself very, perhaps,too exuberantly, to the point of putting my friends on the defensive. The spirit in which I was sharing gets totally misread, and I have to go to Father again for damage control help. I want to be able to practice my listening skills and conversational skills when I am sharing with people, so this may not happen, at least as much as it is in my power to prevent.
It's amazing that we are all traveling our individual journeys having the same single goal, to get to know our incredible triune God more intimately, Father, Son and Spirit; to experience his love and to let him love us, as was his longing and intention in creating us. As we abide in him, He is able to flow through us as streams of salty water, thus having that positive impact on those he brings to us; they become "tapped" and their thirst starts to develop.
I believe he not only uses each of us as salt in the lives of those who don't know that intimacy with him yet, but also in the lives of those who do. As I travel along my journey, I have to believe this same God who excites me is doing the same with his other children! As I hear their "along the way" testiminies, I can rejoice with them, and either already identify with what they are sharing, having experienced God in that way, too, or look forward to experiencing Him in new ways, maybe even as they have experienced Him. I am also working at trusting his work in others, because of that very thing...it is HIS work.
As we walk together, may we draw closer to Him, trusting him to open our eyes and ears to His leadings and nudgings. When we hear something new, if it's Truth with a capital "T", we will feel Him put His stamp on it in our hearts. May we be transparent, accepting, quick to forgive, while keeping a tight hold on the pitcher of grace, pouring it out lavishly on all, allowing God complete freedom to continue the work He began in each one of us.
May you have traveling mercies as you travel tne scenic route, taking time to breathe it all in at each lookout point. :)
Well, this is the longest conversation this blog has ever had! Congratulations to all participants. :)
Hopefully, and with prayers, we will become better at conversing and God will use this forum to make those improvements in our lives.
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